Backpacking with Kids: Lessons from the Pacific Crest Trail with Missy Meskell

Family Travel • Hiking with Kids • Building Connections 

What can hundreds of miles on the trail teach us about family, nature, learning, and ourselves? In this inspiring episode, educator and outdoor adventurer Missy Meskell shares the unforgettable experience of hiking the entire Oregon section of the Pacific Crest Trail with two of her children.

Together, we explore how travel in nature—especially with kids—can stretch our perspectives, strengthen relationships, and create opportunities for reflection and growth. From moments of awe in the wilderness to opportunities for lessons on problem-solving, Missy’s stories are full of warmth, humor, and wisdom. Whether you're dreaming of a backcountry trek or want to build deeper connections through travel, this conversation offers insights you can carry into your own adventures.

In this episode, we explore:

• How Missy and her kids hiked the entire Oregon stretch of the PCT
• How travel fosters connection, resilience, and joy in children (and adults!)
• How to ask better questions instead of giving directions
• Why embracing discomfort can lead to deeper connection and growth
• Actionable tips to get started backpacking

This Week’s Small Step to Enhance Your Next Trip:

Thinking about a backpacking trip? Start with the imagination and inspiration piece! Think about what you are most interested in—whether it's hiking, the sense of accomplishment, or quiet time by a creek with your journal. Do some journaling to discover the part you’re most looking forward to. That clarity will help guide your planning and make it easier to choose the right trail and gear.

Reflection from the Episode:

“Wherever you are, there you are.”

Missy reminds us that traveling with kids often means being fully present to them, to yourself, and to the shared experience. You can’t plan away every challenge, but you can turn even hard moments into transformational shared experiences.

Links Mentioned in the Episode:

• Heather Anish Anderson, National Geographic Adventurer of the Year: https://wordsfromthewild.net/
• Destination Imagination: www.destinationimagination.org
• Pacific Crest Trail Association: www.pcta.org

Ideas for Timelines: https://tripscholars.com/history-travel-timelines-how-to-organize-your-travel-studies/

Thanks for joining me on Conversations for Curious Travelers, a Trip Scholars podcast. I'm so glad you are here!

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Transcript

Backpacking with Kids: Life Lessons from the Pacific Crest Trail with Missy Meskell

[00:00:00] Erica | Trip Scholars: Welcome to Conversations for Curious Travelers, a Trip Scholars podcast. I'm your host, Erica Forrest. In each episode, we explore how travel helps us learn more about the world and ourselves. If you travel, not just to escape, but to grow, connect and understand you are in the right place.

 Today I am excited to welcome my friend Missy Meskell to the show, Missy is a road tripping outdoor enthusiast who sees everyday life as a travel adventure. From 3000 mile road trips with young kids to backpacking all 500 miles of Oregon Pacific Crest Trail with her 15-year-old daughter and 8-year-old son. She's raised four kids across nine cities and five states, and has made travel a central part of her family's story.

She's also a passionate educator for many years who served for five years as the president of Village Home, a premier alternative learning program in Oregon.

Missy is also one of my dearest friends, and I am thrilled to share her insights and stories with you today. Missy, welcome to the show.

[00:01:13] Missy: Thank you, Erica. I'm very excited to be here. As always, a talk with you is a good thing.

[00:01:19] Erica | Trip Scholars: I am especially excited to have you here because I know that you have a thought deeply about the intersection between learning and travel, and you've also helped many people find their own paths forward in this space. So, I would love to start by just hearing a little bit about how you got started traveling and how that's led to so many amazing outdoor adventures that you enjoy now.

Roots in North Pole, Alaska

[00:01:45] Missy: Oh, okay. I think the interesting thing about travel for me is that it really wasn't rooted in my childhood in terms of, traveling out beyond a, a very small circle. I grew up in North Pole, Alaska, which is in the interior, and, and I pretty much stayed there. I remember seeing my first overpass when I was well into my teens. when I went to college, I had a ticket to the wrong airport because we really didn't understand that a city might have multiple airports

Area. So I was very, you know, limited in travel.

But then once I did go out of Alaska and went to California, it just seemed like the world broke open. And I loved going, to the city to see the Golden Gate Bridge. And you know, it just moving down into what we call the lower 48 just all of a sudden opened up these possibilities. And then I met my husband and he had been a big backpacker with his father. And and so that then opened up a secondary way of traveling that I just thought sounded really fun.

Backpacking the Oregon Section of the PCT with Kids

[00:02:51] Erica | Trip Scholars: So it's clear that travel has shaped you in some really profound ways. I bet you've had some amazing experiences out in nature. I'd love to hear a story about a time that really left a lasting impact on you or helped you learn more about, about life.

[00:03:09] Missy: Yeah, there are so many stories that come to mind for nature in particular. Because you're in nature, you are limited by what you have brought with you and then you're faced with whatever circumstances you encounter. And that can be any number of things when you're subject to weather and changing conditions. and if you don't have communications outside of that, you kind of got a roll. So there are a lot of things that we can bring up across the board. But I think that one I'd like to share is a simple one that really has to do with one of the things that I've been reflecting on in travel, which is the importance of travel making relationships.

[00:03:49] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah.

[00:03:49] Missy: And this is a story about relationships. So when in 2015 it was, my daughter was 15 years old, my son was eight, and we decided that we were going to hike across all of Oregon on the Pacific Crest Trail. Now, my husband could not come because he was making money so that we could go on this great adventure. But he was super supportive and he said, yeah, if you want to do that, I'll ship the packages. I'll do whatever you need. I'll like drive the middle of nowhere and drop you off. Go. so it was great and we did it. And we learned a lot on the way about perseverance and duct taping shoes and how to cross a, a high water river and not get the stuffed animals wet. But by day 42 or so we were coming close to Timberland Lodge, which is close to where we live, and my husband was going to meet us at Timberland Lodge and join us for the last week on the trail. We were really excited, but we weren't sure when we were going to actually get into Timberland Lodge. was it going to be Thursday night or Friday night?

We were always flexible about it. What I didn't know is that Colin had gotten us all rooms and gotten arranged a special adventure for us at Timberland for a particular night. So to make sure that we got the message, because of course we didn't have any communications for him, he drove all throughout the Mount Hood National Forest and drove into trail heads all throughout where the PCT crossed different intersections. And then he'd hike in a mile, maybe two, and then he'd tape or, or secure to a random tree on the trail. This note that just said in big letters, you know, Missy, Rosemary, Oliver, and then told us, make it to Timberland tonight. There's pizza. Or the next one it say beer. Or the next I'd say, whatever. so we'd be hiking along and then to my shock, there'd just be this note on a tree in the middle of nowhere. You know, we'd pull it down and be like, oh, we're going to make it tonight. And then he'd tape candy to the bottom of each of these things, which is gold on the trail, right? Like, that's the most valuable thing you can give anybody on the, on a long, hiking trail. And we did it. And it, it made me appreciate Colin, in a way that, you really appreciate the simple things. When you're out on the trail, you know, water, food and people, it just opened that up and I was so happy to get into Timberland Lodge and then sit in the hot tub having a beer and, going, That was pretty sweet, honey.

[00:06:22] Erica | Trip Scholars: as a good friend of Colin's I am not surprised at all that he, he made that effort to help inspire all of you to get through the end of that amazing hike

[00:06:33] Missy: and we'd been hiking, like my little guy was hiking 13 miles a day on average. which is a lot for 8-year-old legs.

[00:06:41] Erica | Trip Scholars: It was a lot for almost any of us, and it is extraordinary for an 8-year-old, 

How did you keep everybody feeling so, positive and focused on that trip? I mean, you overcame many hard things. 

[00:06:54] Missy: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you just, you hit things, you know, a freak rainstorm. high water, you don't hike far enough. It gets cold. You didn't get your rations out. You're bored of your food, right? There's a million things that happen, but I think you. You brought up something that's really critical, which is that if you're going to do this kind of adventure or I think any kind of travel adventure with kids, the first thing that's the most critical part of success is to remember that "wherever you are, there you are." and what you're doing with the kids at that minute and, and not always doing what they want necessarily, but, but putting their, their needs first and, and thinking about what you can do to make it a fun experience for them. You know, that's the key.

[00:07:48] Erica | Trip Scholars: Wow.

[00:07:49] Missy: and when we set out, like I knew it's inevitably going to be hard, but my goal was that it would be fun. This was not Oliver stepping up and going, I want to hike 13 miles a day all summer long. You know, this is not a water slide adventure. So if I'm going to have him do that, and I think it's a great thing that we go into that, then my job is to make it fun.

Yeah. I was out there and it was a great experience for me because when I would backpack with Colin, there's always somebody else to do things. And Colin, being the amazing human that he is, is almost always willing to do the hard things, you know? 

[00:08:29] Erica | Trip Scholars: But you ha you had somebody there to share those responsibilities and carry, carry the responsibility and the weight. Yeah.

[00:08:37] Missy: And literally carry the weight. And now I'm out there and I'm by myself and I'm carrying all of my stuff for a backpacking trip. I'm carrying all the joint food, I'm carrying all the joint water, and I'm carrying most of Oliver's gear. And he had giant, giant backpack that was pretty much foam. It weighed like three pounds. People would look at me with horror Becaue it was so big. But I'm like, it's mainly a foam stuffed animal. and so it made me go, wow, Colin really does so much heavy lifting, and not just on the trips, but in all these different ways. And you get to appreciate that when you're away from it.

[00:09:16] Erica | Trip Scholars: Highlights it perfectly, not only about Colin as a person, but also about what travel helps us appreciate about our day-to-day life. And the comforts, like you started off talking about, you know, you have to really think about water and shelter and shoes in a way that, when we're home and we can open our closet and choose from which pair of shoes radically different experiences.

[00:09:41] Missy: right.

Building Connections on the Trail

[00:09:41] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah. I love what that experience helped your kids understand about the world and what they're capable of. And I'd love to talk more about that. But before we do, 

I know you also have nurtured your trail families when you've been on these big hikes. Can you talk a little bit about what, what trail families are and how, how relying on the people that you meet on the trail really has shaped your understanding of our connections with others?

[00:10:14] Missy: Yeah, it's an interesting thing that we go out into the wilderness often and we say, oh, I'm going to go out to commune with nature and solitude.

[00:10:21] Erica | Trip Scholars: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:22] Missy: that is true. I would say coming back to something we touched on at the very beginning, that it's also equally about relationship when you're doing this.

And it can be relationship with who you're traveling with

[00:10:36] Erica | Trip Scholars: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:37] Missy: It can be relationship with people that you are apart from, as we just talked about. And it can also be relationship with just the, the people that you come across and the Pacific Crest Trail or any of these major, international trails of which there are many, are hubs for people to meet and, and increasingly becoming so every, every year it's kind of exciting and people from all walks of life. we did see a couple other kids on the trail. We met people from all over the world. We met people women traveling alone, which was very exciting for me.

When I first started backpacking in the eighties, I never saw women much less women alone

[00:11:12] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah.

[00:11:13] Missy: and older people, people with disabilities. It was very exciting. So on the PCT in particular, like any of these major trails people do, they come into the trail. You meet up with people and you build families.

You're often traveling at roughly the same pace. People are talking and they're taking care of one another. They give each other names you know, and and they'll often make connections that end up continuing well past the trail.

[00:11:38] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah. Yeah. So when you guys are out there, I mean, you are a mom with kids you are a very strong, capable woman out there. But you are still at the mercy of nature and things that are, are out of your control. Do you feel like leaning on each other, are those people leaning on you and especially your kids, getting to see what that is like to build those relationships?

Did that have a lasting impact on them?

[00:12:08] Missy: Oh, definitely. In fact, I think, you know, for Ollie being eight, he doesn't remember much of the scenery.

[00:12:15] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah.

[00:12:15] Missy: remember much of the day to day. You know, he has like a general, I would say it's an impressionistic painting of of backpacking. That's what Ollie has from it, except the people he met.

[00:12:27] Erica | Trip Scholars: Hmm.

[00:12:27] Missy: And he has a couple of different things that he remembers about the people met.

One, he, he, there's a number of people, probably a dozen people that he could tell you. And then I met this person, and then I met this person, and then I met this person. Some were people that we traveled with, some people that we just came across that were just at a trail junction called Trail Angels.

[00:12:45] Erica | Trip Scholars: Oh yeah.

[00:12:46] Missy: Pacific Crest Trail hikers. And like just set up at a junction and had apples and candy. And he's like, hi how you doing?

[00:12:53] Erica | Trip Scholars: The world is good and people are good.

[00:12:56] Missy: world is good. And We ran into a couple who were on their honeymoon Riley and Carla. And then we also met a fellow Michael who was traveling. All of us were traveling separate, but we happened into one another at one of the trails overnight, you know, just where we were camping. And, and then we happened to be camping in similar places the next couple nights. So we got to know each other.

And they were of course, happy to talk to Oliver and Rosemary and find out what these children were doing in the. Wilderness. We ended up coming into Fish Depot, which is one of the, like, I'm going to put resorts in a loose quote Becaue it's mainly really ratty cabins with shag carpet, it's one of these things that's on a little tiny fishing lake along the trail, right off the trail.

And they have a, a resupply so you can go get your boxes have burgers and beer. And we later found out they have a pontoon boat you can rent out. So it was a long day and I did not know whether we're going to make it. We're only like a quarter mile out, we're going to make it to the Fish depot.

And I'm pretty sure our friends are there and just as I'm like, come on honey, come on honey, we hear this. Woohoo. And there's a big field and there's a deck. And our friends that we've made on the trail are on the deck, drinking beers, eating burgers, and they've seen Oliver and Rosie, and now they're cheering 

[00:14:19] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah.

[00:14:19] Missy: he just like takes off running across this field, right? And they're like, we've got ice cream. And we ended up just having a glorious time. It was just you know, he went from exhausted. It was one of the times his shoes weren't working. Like everything's going wrong and he's just all of a sudden happy and glowing. So those kinds of things, individual people, he remembers really clearly. And those connections super important, right?

[00:14:48] Erica | Trip Scholars: Such an inspiring story.

[00:14:51] Missy: and we had a great time on the pontoon the next day. Rosemary drove the pontoon all day long and we just floated. It was fantastic.

[00:14:57] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah.

[00:14:57] Missy: was a great day. But the other thing that he remembers too is he's a social guy, so it was Rosemary's very social. So they would just we'd get into camp and we'd just be right by the trail and they would just like, waylay people walking by and just ask them, who are you?

Where are you going? Are you a hiker? You know, and so their experience of the trail, particularly Ollie who has, as I said, this impressionistic fusion of the actual hiking. It's people, it's the, it's the connection specific people. And then just talking with people from

[00:15:30] Erica | Trip Scholars: as somebody who knows your kids and knew them through that experience,their sense of self, their sense of comfort in the world, their sense of curiosity, their love of storytelling and interest in other human beings. I can't help but think

[00:15:46] Missy: Yeah, it's pretty hard to think that people are anything but wonderful when you're out on trail with a bunch of other people that are just hiking along together.

The Importance of Play & Creative Problem Solving

[00:15:57] Erica | Trip Scholars: I love that. Missy, in addition to spending all this time out in nature you've also thought a lot about learning and education as a teacher. Helping to guide Village Home for many years and thinking about what does it mean to educate a person?

What does it mean to help somebody understand who they are and what it means to be in this world and in this world with each other. I would love to know a little bit more about why you chose to spend so much time with kids, and also, I know you brought other kids and adults out into nature quite a bit.

What made you choose to intentionally have that be such an important component of, of learning?

[00:16:45] Missy: Mm-hmm. Well, first of all, it sounded like a lot of fun,

really fun. And, and, and just spending time like my major motivator in just the way we raised kids was, it's such a tiny window in the big scheme of, of life that you get to have them when they're, you know, I mean, you only get to have them for a, a year at each age, you

[00:17:10] Erica | Trip Scholars: Right?

[00:17:10] Missy: pass so quickly and cumulatively, it's really not that much.

And then they're, they're grown,

[00:17:15] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yes.

[00:17:16] Missy: Which is a whole different experience and wonderful. But I knew that, I've always loved playing and and if I was going to have kids, I wanted to spend time and play with them. But I also, in thinking about education and thinking about learning, I am profoundly influenced by the idea that it is through play we learn how to make sense of our world. it is how we learn to negotiate conflict. It is how we learn to overcome failure. it it's how we learn about what our skillset is or the things that interest us or what our skillset isn't. And whether or not we want to work on that.

Like, to me, those are the most important things about education. I think that generally there's a growing understanding that education isn't simply about a list of, of facts. And can we do the figures? Those are things that are helpful to know and to have, to, to be a more informed person about the, the first thing.

But the first thing is, can you put things into context? Right?

[00:18:31] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah.

[00:18:32] Missy: and, and maneuver within that comfortably and confidently within your own skin. And that comes through, I think primarily play of all kinds. So as you know, you did Destination Imagination, like that's a wonderful play-based to me

[00:18:47] Erica | Trip Scholars: Can, can you tell our listeners a little bit about what Destination Imagination is and what you did with it?

[00:18:52] Missy: sure. So Destination Imagination, again, traveling Destination it's a competitive, creative problem solving competition. And it uses the words competitive, but that always kind of makes me laugh. What it really is, it's a celebration of learning information and and applying that information to a novel problem.

So. Teams of kids, will have some sort of problem presented to them and they get to come up with a solution to it where the, the options for them creating a solution are wide open. 

Yeah. So Missy and I both served as coaches in Destination Imagination for many years and had the privilege of working with a lot of young people as they tried to, to solve these different creative problems as a group. And one of the things that I so appreciate about that program is there's a concept of interference.

[00:19:51] Erica | Trip Scholars: And so the role of the adults is really to help the kids figure out how to solve their problem by guiding them through. Brainstorming and creative problem solving and maybe getting them resources or mentors or getting them to stores or whatever it is to get what they need to solve the problem.

But we can't tell them how to solve their problem. They're solving it on their own and they're solving it together. And in my role as a travel coach, I actually think about being a creative problem solving coach for all of those many years because it's never about telling people what they ought to do to have this kind of trip or this travel experience that they're wanting.

It's about providing them with the right tools and asking the right questions so that they can find that on their own. And then it is theirs. And I'm sure you, out on the trail,

[00:20:49] Missy: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:50] Erica | Trip Scholars: probably asking a lot of those same questions of, of your kids or of yourself or of the adults that you've brought out.

Because. Your goal isn't to like control their story, it's to empower them to have their story. Yeah.

[00:21:06] Missy: Yes, yes, yes, yes. 

 in Destination Imagination the adults are there to help the kids learn how to think through the problems. And so the questions are, how do you think that's going to work?

[00:21:16] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yes.

[00:21:17] Missy: Why do you think that's, it's going to work? What do you think are the other options? And I would like to also bring up that when you have any group of people, especially developing people, conflict resolution is going to need to be there. And so as a team manager, your job is to help them figure out when, when two people see two radically different solutions to the same problem how do you help them say "yes and"?

And you know, that classic improv question of there are, let's, instead of shutting each other down, let's make things bigger by figuring out how we can compromise or, or establish like what are the, the things that best reflect us as a group.

[00:21:58] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yes.

[00:21:59] Missy: Yeah.

[00:21:59] Erica | Trip Scholars: And do you feel like, and maybe I can just mention that I know you have also brought some young women out to have some of their first backpacking experiences. You've brought some other young adults out. You've brought Cub Scouts out on the trail. You have helped a lot of people have these transformative, challenging experiences out in nature.

Do you see an overlap with what you did as a creative problem solving coach and asking those kinds of questions and building on that, that that tension that inevitably arises when you're traveling? It's hard. you're going to probably have more challenges when you're traveling than if you stayed in your living room and watched television.

So do you, do you lean on some of those skills and tools? I.

[00:22:46] Missy: I I not only lean on them, I wish I had done Destination Imagination earlier because it, it transformed me in

[00:22:58] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah.

[00:22:58] Missy: I would interact with, with the kids in everything from my own children on when we were traveling to how we were raising our family to how I interacted with with other children.

[00:23:10] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yep.

[00:23:11] Missy: the kids were very, very little, I was much more, this is how we're going to do it.

I totally am happy to make things happen in a given situation. So raising my kids when they were little, you know, and, and when they were super small. That was actually helpful in some ways. But it helped me learn all these ways or realize that when I told the kids something that was not nearly as effective in helping them actually first of all, experience things, well, they were just being kind of shut down and told to do something. But it also didn't help them develop the skills that I was really trying to get them to

[00:23:43] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yep. Yep. Exactly.

[00:23:45] Missy: wilderness.

Like if I told Oliver every single morning, Hey, you need to make sure that your stuffed animal is not in the bottom of your sleeping bag. I'm packing stuff up. Becaue guess what? You know, like, so if I tell 'em every morning, take your stuffed animal out of your sleeping bag, and I could repeat that every morning, or you know, I could start asking these questions to, to say, if you do this, what do you think is going to happen?

What do you want to do? How are you going to handle this situation? And it just revolutionized all of our experiences in the wilderness. I was less stressed. It was more fun. Becaue sometimes you would ask a simple question like, how do you think that's going to work out? And as a parent, you're fishing for a particular answer

[00:24:27] Erica | Trip Scholars: Surprise.

[00:24:28] Missy: and you're like, you get a completely different answer and you realize the two of you are nowhere even near on the same, you're not in the same forest.

Right. And that's kind of funny. And you're like, oh, well let's, let's talk about

[00:24:40] Erica | Trip Scholars: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:41] Missy: just leads to better connection. More connection and a more authentic experience and more authentic learning, I think across the board.

[00:24:48] Erica | Trip Scholars: I love that so much. And obviously I see that in in your kids and when I watch you interact with a lot of different people and it's a joy to get to witness. I think one of the things that, that hits on for me is that. It, it can be so easy to be focused on what's happening in the moment and like solving the problem or getting to the next thing in life, or making sure dinner's on the table or something like that.

And yet, when we give ourselves the opportunity to step back a little bit and we think about what are we really doing here with these people that we love on this planet, this precious planet together, is it really that we want, you know, just to get to the thing that's in an hour? And sometimes that is the primary thing, or is it really to help help these kids in this situation become the kinds of adults that we.

So deeply want them to be able to be kind, compassionate, curious healthy all all of the things that if you ask these questions in the right way, they're building those skills that they'll have forever. And that's such a gift. And I think, I think travel really is such a great opportunity for that.

When I'm working with families, a lot of times, you know, if they have a kid who's really interested in math, can you encourage them to help figure out what train to take and how that's going to get you to a certain place at a certain time. Understand the train tables,

Giving kids more and more opportunities to build that autonomy and those problem solving skills that they will then carry for the rest of their lives. 

Creating Context Around Abstract Ideas of Time and Space

[00:26:28] Missy: Yeah. And I think, I think that's critical when we would go on road trips a big part of it is in the morning, you know, we'd, we'd always have a big map, because the kids need visuals, they need something tactile to help them understand or put context around what they're, they're doing.

[00:26:44] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah.

[00:26:44] Missy: so in the morning, we'd be like, okay, here we are on the map. And then we'd look at the road and we'd run our fingers,along the road to where we're going to go to. And, and we just like over breakfast, talk about what might we see on this? And then the kids, you know, that's like, okay, yeah, mom, whatever.

But but where the, the rubber really hit the road is we had to figure out, well, how many miles do we think we're going to get today? And how many snack bags, you know, I. they going to, are they going to be like, and I would have bags packed. You know, that would be, you know, the surprise bags that you hand back to the kids in the backseat, that

[00:27:17] Erica | Trip Scholars: we had those too. They're fun.

[00:27:19] Missy: you know, they had the fun thing, whatever it was for the day.

And the kids would help pick out the different,landmarks along the trip. You know, so anything that you're doing with that, that helps them, you know, put something concrete that's, that's right for a kid's perspective into that travel experience. I think just makes it more fun for everybody, know?

Becaue now you're not, you're not this abstract. We're going to drive to Albuquerque, or we're going to drive to the dinosaur museum at the end of it, but oh, the next one is, is this. And you know, and that they know that there's probably going to be a dinosaur in that bag that comes back, you

[00:27:56] Erica | Trip Scholars: I love the idea of giving kids something tactile or concrete to, to take those ideas and, and make it real 

[00:28:04] Missy: Yeah. Yeah. I remember when Oliver was little. Do you remember you gave us two big wall maps that were like these vinyls stick

[00:28:11] Erica | Trip Scholars: Oh yeah.

[00:28:12] Missy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So those were in our house right up until we moved. they had gotten super tattered and shredded because he would, you know, put little things on him about different things that he was learning 

But all those kinds of things are really where that intersection, that curiosity about the world and putting things into context, you know, that comes together and it comes together again through kind of a playful thing.

[00:28:38] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I have an article on the site that's all about making timelines

[00:28:45] Missy: Yeah.

[00:28:46] Erica | Trip Scholars: History is also one of those things that is just so abstract. It can be very challenging to make sense of all these dates and important, events or figures. And yet, back to what you were saying a while ago it is also that those facts and figures are important.

 But if you don't have a place to kind of ground each of those thingsThey can just all kind of float around. And sowhether it is having real life experiences or having a way to kind of ground those things on a map or on a timeline those can all be so, so helpful.

[00:29:23] Missy: yeah, yeah. We would actually do big timelines on like rolls of computer paper,

[00:29:28] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah,

[00:29:29] Missy: So my favorite timeline of all, all the things, we just have this big piece of paper and we would roll out and we would take whatever books they'd read recently and we'd figure out what the timeframe was for that book.

[00:29:40] Erica | Trip Scholars: oh, that's a fun way to do it.

[00:29:42] Missy: Yeah. It was really fun. So, and, and I don't know about you, but like, I think I traveled mostly through, through books as a kid.

Learning About Ourselves Through Being in Nature

[00:29:49] Erica | Trip Scholars: Definitely. Yes. Yeah.

We've talked a lot about learning but I am curious like I always think of you as a very centered, grounded person. Do you think that all of your time and nature has played a role in that?

[00:30:04] Missy: Yeah, yeah. From being, from being very young,

[00:30:09] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah.

[00:30:10] Missy: North Pole, it was a place of just astounding beauty. you would go outside, you know, and you could lay in the snow at, you know, four o'clock in the afternoon, you'd get off school and if you were dressed well enough, you could just lay in the snow.

And the Aurora Borealis would be just putting on a show

[00:30:32] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah.

[00:30:32] Missy: front of you in the most, not even silence. There's a silence of deep snow that's almost like a deep thrumming.

[00:30:40] Erica | Trip Scholars: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:41] Missy: it can almost feel like it's in tune with your heartbeat.

[00:30:44] Erica | Trip Scholars: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:44] Missy: all you're listening to is just like this. thrumming of the universe around you, and you're looking at the aurora, you know, and then the summers would come and the sun would just never go down. and so you had the experience of just watching the sun circumnavigate the sky

[00:31:03] Erica | Trip Scholars: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:03] Missy: you know, it wouldn't even go overhead. It would just go around

[00:31:06] Erica | Trip Scholars: Around

[00:31:06] Missy: be playing all the time with these wild, enormous plants, that only have two months to like up and get

[00:31:15] Erica | Trip Scholars: lived their whole life.

[00:31:16] Missy: their whole life.

So they just burst into existence around you. And so that, and I was given lots and lots of time to experience and just be in that And it was, it was wonderful.

So that, groundedness, I think really does come the refuge that whenever anything is really challenging in life and there are challenging things for everybody,

[00:31:43] Erica | Trip Scholars: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:45] Missy: is you can always go and lay underneath the tree just look up. And for me, that is just centering.

[00:31:53] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah. That's wonderful and beautiful. Thank you. And, it comes out in your whole way of being. So I love knowing that it started for you as a child, so. So beautiful. 

Tips for Backpacking and Being in Nature

Missy, I am sure some of our listeners are probably curious about wanting to spend more time in nature, maybe taking a big backpacking trip, maybe taking a big backpacking trip with their kids, but not quite sure where to begin.

What would you say to somebody who's holding back because a trip like this might feel really out of reach or intimidating?

[00:32:29] Missy: Yes, I do understand that. And I would like to put it out there for a lot of women, it's just going to the bathroom in the woods.

[00:32:36] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yes,

[00:32:37] Missy: We

[00:32:38] Erica | Trip Scholars: yes.

[00:32:38] Missy: not like, not joking. It really, that can be really intimidating. What if I pee all over my stuff? How am I going to feel about peeing just out in somewhere where someone could come along and watch me and see me, or I, I understand those concerns and if that's what's keeping you from, from wanting to try it or from trying it. It doesn't need to. There are actually some very graphic videos, but informative videos about how, how do you poop in the woods,

[00:33:09] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah.

[00:33:09] Missy: a woman, how do you pee? And there are lots of devices. There's a great, like a, a tool for women so that you could pee standing up. It's

[00:33:17] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yes.

[00:33:17] Missy: just a funnel.

There's a lot of them on the market, but most of all, when you're in the wilderness, you just learn that at certain moments, you know, like people did before. We divided our worlds up into apartments and cubicles and things like that.

You just know how to give people privacy.

[00:33:31] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah.

[00:33:31] Missy: so if you are walking along the trail and you come along and there's like a bag that's dropped by the side of the trail, like you're not going to look over there Becaue somebody's doing their business and that's their thing. So that's my first thing is if, it's the intimidation for women of going to the bathroom in the outdoors, don't let that stop you it needn't.

There's tutorials plenty. And then know that, that you're not doing anything that's going to surprise anybody. It's okay.

[00:33:55] Erica | Trip Scholars: That's

Advice.

[00:33:57] Missy: yeah. it's really funny, whenever I would bring young women out to to backpacking, that is almost always one of the things that we needed to cover. And I finally realized, oh, this is what's keeping some people from trying this.

That's

[00:34:10] Erica | Trip Scholars: That's so interesting. I I have not brought a lot of people out backpacking. I did not know. That was one of the things that was holding a lot of folks back. I'm so glad you shared it.

[00:34:20] Missy: Yeah, so I would say that that's one of them. The second one I come across particularly for women is, am I going to be strong enough to to carry this? Right? And I

[00:34:31] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah.

[00:34:32] Missy: Yeah, you, you probably are. So I think that the most important thing, and I'm going to go really quick on two different ones. you're going to go backpacking and you're just like looking to do it as an adult, whether with friends or by yourself or whatever, the most important thing is just to figure out what, what kind of experience that you're looking for.

Becaue there's lots of different kinds of backpacking. There's going super ultra light where you're hitting high mileage every day. There's ones where you've got traditional gear that you're going to get if you just walk into REI and ask them to set you up, they're, they're going to set you up, not with ultra light gear, but with standard gear that's a little bit more comfortable, but you're not going to hit high mileage and that's fine.

You're going to have a lot more comfortable experience. So figure out what you're looking for. It's probably going to be a good place to start with that. REI experience, I. Go in there, ask for advice about a beginner's trail near you. There's going to be one, there's trails everywhere and you're going to hike in four miles. You're going to set up camp, find one that's near water Becaue that will make your life much, much easier. And and then you're good to go. You can day hike from there if that even sounds too much. Then here's the trick. Get the gear at REI go to your local campground pretend that you're in a backpacking sit situation.

drive to your local campground With car campers, right? But bring your backpacking

[00:35:56] Erica | Trip Scholars: Ah, good idea.

[00:35:56] Missy: moment that you close that car door, imagine that, that you're now backpacking and go ahead and go for a hike. Come back, set up your stuff and test all your gear on a weekend

[00:36:09] Erica | Trip Scholars: Awesome

[00:36:10] Missy: And yeah,

[00:36:11] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah.

[00:36:11] Missy: go, oh, oh, oh, when I'm actually away from my car, I'm going to want this, you know, I'm going to want to bring that, right? And so you have that safety valve. Okay? So the second part of it is if you're doing it with a family you know, then that those things apply even more.

[00:36:28] Erica | Trip Scholars: Hmm.

[00:36:29] Missy: it focused on having fun. Don't try for high miles , just go in somewhere that's pretty close to a trailhead. And and then you set up your camp and it can be as lux as you want to.

You can bring in, you know, the, the little like portable seats that you need to or whatever, and, and then you'll just day hike from there. But, but like moderate your expectations when you've got kids, until you get your feet under you and then you'll define for yourself what you're ready for.

[00:36:58] Erica | Trip Scholars: That is such awesome advice. Thank you. That is great. And I'll just mention all of the camping I have done with Missy. I come in as a car camper and she and her family show us how backpackers, how backpackers do it. So you, you can mix it.

[00:37:16] Missy: Yeah. Is that we always have to borrow marshmallows from her

[00:37:20] Erica | Trip Scholars: We, but we've always got our vegan marshmallows, so we're good to go. Yeah, you guys probably don't backpack with a lot of marshmallows and comfy chairs.

[00:37:28] Missy: Well, so you do, if you're doing a luxury camping trip, if I'm only going in three miles and I have a 35 pound pack. that's a lot of stuff. Like, I don't normally pack that amount of

[00:37:42] Erica | Trip Scholars: You could bring treats.

[00:37:44] Missy: oh yeah, you can bring treats, you can bring your chair, you know, you can bring those things.

And especially if you've got kids, like we always have, we call power pellets

And when the kids are lagging on the trail, like I'll just be walking fast down the trail and I'll have in my hands scoop behind me a thing of m MSS or Skittles or whatever. And if the kids can keep up with me, then they get to feed like from that hand like a trough.

Right. although we don't bring marshmallows, usually we, we do bring lots of treats when it's with kids.

[00:38:16] Erica | Trip Scholars: That is another great tip. Even just for day hikes, having, energy blasts that you can have and something to be looking forward to, to get through things that are challenging and hard. 

Books and Inspiration for Backpackers

[00:38:26]Do you have any resources that you would recommend for people interested in taking a trip like this? I loved all your ideas about just going into REI, if that's expensive. Sometimes there are places that will lend out some of that gear. You might have family or friends, but I bet you also have some books that people could, could lean on.

Yeah, so there is I mean, there are so many guidebooks about it.

 there's two different kind of books that we're talking about here,

[00:38:53] Erica | Trip Scholars: Okay.

[00:38:54] Missy: One is like things that are going to help you actually do that. And that's such a wide field.

[00:38:59] Erica | Trip Scholars: Oh,

[00:38:59] Missy: better off just going into REI and just talking with people,

[00:39:03] Erica | Trip Scholars: mm-hmm.

[00:39:04] Missy: or or any of the gear stores people.

If you get in a gear store, love to talk

[00:39:09] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:10] Missy: Or if you know anybody, there's somebody in your life who knows somebody who backpacks

[00:39:16] Erica | Trip Scholars: Those people would love to talk to you.

[00:39:18] Missy: They're happy to talk to. And there are a, there's a trillion guides on that one. There's also this different thing that you need to do, which is to, to feed your imagination. 

Heather Anish Anderson

And so the, the person that I would like to touch on really quick is Heather Anish Anderson, and she fed my imagination. Now. As a young girl, was not at all athletic. She says she describes herself as a rather chubby bookworm introvert, not very self-confident, but as, a recent college graduate, she went out and she was working in the Grand Canyon as a like an assistant park ranger or something. And she realized that her life could incorporate this kind of adventure, this kind of travel, like just being on her own power. And she hiked to the bottom of the canyon, came back up and nearly died, decided, I love this. I'm going to do more of it and I'm going to make it so that I, I can do it easily. And so she just started walking and, and she ended up at a time when like women were just starting to be in the woods, but nobody had done what initiative. She ended up setting the. That means that nobody else helped her. She carried all of her own gear. She did everything herself. Pacific Crest Trail record back in 2000, I think 13.

[00:40:41] Erica | Trip Scholars: Wow.

[00:40:41] Missy: was the first person to simultaneously hold both the Pacific Crest Trail record and the Appalachian Trail record.

[00:40:47] Erica | Trip Scholars: wow.

[00:40:48] Missy: has done the Triple Crown, which is hiking the Pacific Crest Trail, the Appalachian Trail, and the Colorado Divide Trail all in a year. She's done that like three times. She is a legend in the community and she did it without a lot of people herself, women, to, to look forward to, you know, to look at as being, showing the way she is since then, like showing the way and there are all sorts of people out in the trail. Just following her and for me, she fed my imagination. written a couple of books. One of them on her Appalachian Trail journey, one of them on her record setting Pacific Crest Trail Journey. And I was never going to travel like this. First of all, I don't like to suffer, so when I go backpacking, like I don't go, if it's going to like rain really hard, like why would I, you know, and I go when it's going to be beautiful and glorious and I bring plenty of food and I do hike a lot, but I, I, I don't hike that's going to suffer. Anish wanted to set a record, so she was hiking and she's like, yeah, I wept every day. But it was something that just inspired me. So you also need, in addition to the guidebooks and the gear, you need to find things that inspire you. And really inspires me.

[00:42:04] Erica | Trip Scholars: That's fabulous. Thank you. 

Travel Builds Resilience

And we didn't really get to talk too much about that today, but the, the concept of pushing yourself to the point where you are weeping or where you are putting yourself in really uncomfortable situations. I remember one of the backpacking trips I did crying the whole way down this very steep hike.

And probably about a year later, giving birth to our first child. I'm thinking during labor, I did that hike. I can do this. I did that hike. I can do this. Can you talk before we wrap up just a little bit about what that. Ability to move through that. What you were just talking about, how Heather inspired you to push through some of those uncomfortable things, how you've been able to inspire your kids to do that.

What do you think that gives us to, to push ourselves like that?

[00:42:56] Missy: I think that's a question and applicable not only to outdoor travel, but to being stuck in the New Jersey airport overnight where there is absolutely no soft surfaces to lay down on, like in the entire building, you know, like it's every kind of travel experience.

[00:43:16] Erica | Trip Scholars: yes.

[00:43:17] Missy: There are going to be things that you can choose to make into miserable things, or, or, or to just always have them be miserable or to have them be transformative,

[00:43:27] Erica | Trip Scholars: Mm-hmm.

[00:43:28] Missy: have them be things that make you resilient. for me personally, the first backpacking trip I went on with Colin before our first child was born, was an an absolute shit show. was, was a comedy, it was a day of glory. We hiked in Alaska up around this big circle loop that went up and over the ridges of several different surrounding hills, and then came back down halfway along, are these amazing rock formations called the Tors They rise up outta the frozen tundra and there are these monoliths of stone that look like something outta Stonehenge, but they're just these natural rock formations

[00:44:08] Erica | Trip Scholars: Amazing.

[00:44:09] Missy: as the ground is eroded. Right. So we camped at the bottom of the tor and I'm like, I love backpacking. It's a best thing ever. great. The next morning when it had rained and because I had the world's crappiest tent that didn't even really have a fly that functioned and I'd left my leather boots outside of the tent, not really under the fly. I had these wet boots and I had feet that

[00:44:35] Erica | Trip Scholars: Ouch.

[00:44:36] Missy: from the day before. Now an experienced with traveler would never run into this problem, but I wasn't an experienced traveler.

And I'd set up, we'd set up an ambitious thing, which to Colin made sense Becaue he was a backpacker, right. But when we were mile four of our way back around and we have to get all 12 miles in and, and my feet are just a, a, a caked on bunch of blisters that are bleeding. And I am weeping openly and I'm just like, I, I'm not going to go.

And I'm telling him, I'm sure you experienced the same thing too. If you came crying down a hill. I was like, I can't go anymore. I'm not going to, I can't, like, how, how could I like my feet hurt,

[00:45:18] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yes. And yet you.

[00:45:21] Missy: You have to, it's the same thing as childbirth, right?

[00:45:24] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yeah,

[00:45:25] Missy: Or you gotta sleep on the floor in New Jersey, right?

[00:45:27] Erica | Trip Scholars: exactly.

[00:45:28] Missy: you, you have to do it. And when you then do, do it and can overcome that you know, and then you see the people on the deck and they're calling out to you, Ollie, you are going to make it. We've got beer, and you do make it. Then you can frame that as like, oh my God, I can come through that.

I remember Colin looking back at me on the trail, just like, what's, wrong with her? Like, Becaue he didn't, he had never experienced being, you know, a negative, like, didn't know what to do with it.

[00:46:01] Erica | Trip Scholars: yeah. Yeah.

[00:46:02] Missy: Yeah. And I was like, I, I, I did that and now I'm going to do some things. One, I'm going to figure out how not to put myself in that situation if I can avoid

[00:46:11] Erica | Trip Scholars: Mm-hmm.

[00:46:11] Missy: then too, if I am going to be in that situation, I'm going to do the things I can to mediate the suffering rather than just like give up and give into it. And then three, I'm going to then decide to distract myself from it. And in so doing, become a much more resilient person. And I've applied that to like everything in my life.

[00:46:32] Erica | Trip Scholars: Yes. And you are a very resilient human being. I love that story. 

This Week’s Small Step to Enhance Your Next Trip

Missy, you have given us a lot of inspiration for our own travels and our own travels out in nature. For people who are interested in doing a big backpacking trip or even getting started with hiking or camping do you have one small step that we could take this week to help us move forward in that direction?

[00:46:59] Missy: Yes. I would say that that is to start with that imagination and inspiration piece,

[00:47:04] Erica | Trip Scholars: Hmm.

[00:47:05] Missy: to just write down like, obviously you're interested in doing this, and you need to figure out what it is that you're really interested in, in doing. For some people it's the hiking aspect. For some people, it's the achievement.

 But maybe what you want to do is just be by a creek. And what you really want to do is, is be able to take your journal out and do plant identification. So you need to start with that imagination piece, that inspiration piece. So write down some concrete part of what it is that you're most looking forward to a backpacking journey.

And that will help you when you go in, you're like, well, this is what I'm really after. It will really help who you're talking to, whether REI or a friend or something help you identify what kind of trips you and gear you're probably going to want to start out with.

[00:47:50] Erica | Trip Scholars: That's fabulous advice. Thank you. That's great. Way to move forward. 

Reflection from the Episode

We always like to leave our listeners with a reflection on travel to dive deeper into on their own after the show. And I wanted to just share a quote that you shared earlier in the episode about how you think about traveling with your kids.

But I think it really encompasses so much of what we talked about today, and that is, "wherever you are, there you are."

Missy, thank you so much for sharing your experiences and your insights and your way of seeing, seeing the world. It was really a gift to have you on the show. Thank you.

Thank you, Erica. Thanks so much for joining me. I know your time is valuable and I'm truly grateful that you spent some of it here together. Please come visit me at tripscholars.com for free travel resources, workshops and travel coaching. And if you enjoyed today's show, please follow, review or share it. It really helps other curious travelers find us.

Until next time, Curious Travelers.